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 Costs and Chaining and Such

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Harper7000
Chaosking
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PostSubject: Costs and Chaining and Such   Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:09 pm

Yeah...so I know I recently posted an article about every summon known to man, but something is confusing me: Dark Simorgh. The way he is worded in his special summoning effects makes it seem like a cost, and sure enough, wikis says Simorgh's specialing effects start a chain. Wut? Usually if something summons itself it's inherent (doesn't start a chain). Does everything appearing to have costs summons by effect even though it's their own effect? Like Birdman? If that's so, how do the chains work? Like let's say you banish Necroface for BLS. BLS is inherent and Necroface mandatory so Necroface chains but only after BLS is summoned. What about Simorgh, since banishing is a cost? Is it any different or...? Or Birdman returning Tengu for example. Is Tengu or Birdman summoned first?

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Scorpion67
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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:20 pm

Simorgh effect is different from bls, chaos sorc etc... remove a light and a dark for bls is the cost for a sumoning condition. Dark simorgh, unlike bls and sorc, can be normal summon or set so it is not a summoning condition, its an effect and thats why it starts a chain and removing the monsters is the cost for the effect

Thats also why you cannot t king simorgh. Its kinda confusing at the begining but when u read the card well, it makes sence

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Harper7000
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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:24 pm

I suppose but just because you can normal it doesn't necessarily mean anything...Cydra is inherent and a normal summon monster. Does this only count for effects with costs? Also what about the Necroface scenario?

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SirFunchalot



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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:55 pm

Dark Simorgh says "You can banish 1 DARK monster and 1 WIND monster from your Graveyard; Special Summon this card from your hand."

Chaos Sorcerer says "This card can only be Special Summoned by removing from play 1 LIGHT and 1 DARK monster in your Graveyard."

The way Dark Simorgh is worded implies that the removal of the two monsters is a cost in order to activate the effect to Special Summon it from your hand. This is different than the wording on Chaos Sorcerer which states that by removing from play the two monsters in your Graveyard is the only way to Special Summon it from your hand.

Yes, Necroface would resolve after the summon of Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning.

Genex Ally Birdman pays the activation cost of returning Rebron Tengu to hand. Genex Ally Birdman is summoned. Reborn Tengu activates immediately after and summons another from your Deck if possible.

Once a card's effect has been activated and no other card or card's effect is chained in response to the activation of that card it's effect will fully resolve, and any cards that's effect(s) were triggered through the cost payment to activate the initial card effect or are activating as a result of that card's effect will now resolve and form a chain.

Example: Player 1 activates Lightning Vortex by discarding Dandylion (has 2 empty monster zones). Lightning Vortex resolves destroying all of Player 2's monster, which is only a face-up Card Trooper. Both effects are mandatory so neither will miss the activation timing. Since Player 1's Dandylion was sent to the Graveyard before Card Trooper was destroyed, it will be Chain Link 1 and the effect of Card Trooper will be Chain Link 2. Card Trooper will resolve first, having Player 2 draw 1 card, then Dandylion will resolve Special Summoning 2 Fluff Tokens to Player 1's side of the Field. Dandylion will not activate immediately once it was sent to the Graveyard.
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Harper7000
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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Sun Jan 01, 2012 11:19 pm

I was asking more about Simorgh with Necroface since I already knew for BLS but you answered it in a roundabout way anyway. Ok, one more thing then: in such a situation, would they be able to chain Maxx C? First situation, would they be able to chain it to Simorgh and Birdman with nothing else involved? And second, would they be able to chain it when mandatory effects are involved, for example, banishing Necroface for Simorgh or returning Tengu for Birdman? Thanks for the help so far btw

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LegendaryFrost



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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:09 am

Since birdman's summon isn't inherent and returning is a cost, you should be able to chain to it. After birdman is summoned tengu starts on another chain. As for the Simorgh scenario if u banish them it is a cost, for a summon that isn't inherent so u shud be able to chain maxx to that as well. Correct me if I am wrong.

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SirFunchalot



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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Mon Jan 02, 2012 12:12 am

Maxx "C" can be chained to the activation of the effect of pretty much any card. So in the case of Dark Simorgh / Genex Ally Birdman they pay their activation cost and reveal themselves from your hand, at this time your opponent may choose to chain a card (such as Maxx "C") before the resolution of the effect. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking in the second situation with Necroface so I'm going to assume this:

Player 1 pays cost for Dark Simorgh by banishing Necroface and a WIND monster. Player 1 reveals Dark Simorgh in their hand. Player 2 chooses whether or not to respond to the effect of Dark Simorgh. Player 1 Special Summons Dark Simorgh. Player 2 chooses whether or not to respond to the Summon of Dark Simmorgh. Player 1 activates the mandatory effect of Necroface. Player 2 chooses whether or not to respond to the effect of Necroface.
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j0hnb0i
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PostSubject: Re: Costs and Chaining and Such   Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:49 am

what funch said

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