LOL TCG

judges wrote:

This has been discussed several times in this forum. Because OCG rulings are not official in the TCG, there are no TCG rulings for Xyz Summons at all and in the interest of maintaining consistency with an official source, the well-seasoned judges (aka those judges that are typically Team Leads and HJs at the Premier Events in the U.S.) are currently ruling that if Reborn Tengu is used as Xyz Material, the effect of Reborn Tengu will still activate.

This is not because we disagree or agree with the OCG rulings on Xyz Summons, contrary to what some may think - this is because judges in TCG territories should rule, ultimately, in the perspective of the TCG, not the OCG. In that vein, we then rule in that perspective to maintain consistency in our events, at least, until the article is either clarified or else official rulings are passed down from R&D regarding Xyz Summon mechanics.

So, as long as there is no XYZ rulings in TCG go use Tengu's effect while XYZ summoning! XD

Oh look tengu just got more broken, now SK gonna start hatin....

But I wonder, if the XYZ are coming out soon, how long will it take for them to come up with the rulings

But aren't monsters that become. Xyz material no longer acknowledged as being on the field? That's why sangan Doesn't get its effect. Well this will be interesting.

when TCG dont have official rullings on some stuff, they usualy follows OCG rullings guys so dont climb on the walls ! tengu wont get his effect neither sangan.

Scorp do not doubt tengu, or feel my wrath

I think Tengu doesn't get his effect Frosty, and not 'cause I'm hatin', nor cause I killed it. Let me give you an example of what is called "the limbo zone".

I activate Machina Fortress by discarding itself and Green Gadget. Now you would normally try to D.D Crow my Fortress to stop it from summoning itself. Guess what, you can't. Machina Fortress is considered no longer in the Graveyard, but rather in a lingering state. It's an unofficial area of the game where monsters in situations like the one above stay.

Now according to what I said there are two possibilities:

1.The same principle applies to Exceed Materials(no one will make me call them Xyz, just like nobody will make me love Tengu) when they are overlayed. They are not considered removed from the field, but rather in a lingering state. That's why Sangan doesn't get his effect, yet he apparently goes nowhere between the field and the Graveyard.

2.The above principle doesn't happen.

Thing is, we have a contradiction between the TCG and the OCG right here. Why? Well, in the OCG, Plaguespreader is not removed from play when used for an Exceed material, yet Tengu's effect activates. How do you explain that? That's why I suggest staying away from incomplete and possibly incorrect assumptions (and from Tengu, why not? )

it's not that fortress is in a lingering state. the discarding for it's effect is part of it's inherent special summon, like removing a light and a dark for Chaos Sorcerer.

sangan is a bad example to use against tengu in this situation. sangan isn't gonna get it's effect regardless because it has to go the grave for its effect to go off, tengu just has to leave the field and that is where the confusion starts.

there was an article in the WCQ about the different uses of tengu and one of hem said that you can use him for an Xyz summon and then get another from your deck with it's effect. other judges saw it and have been discussing it ever since it came up. some of us know that most of the posts on the coverage are reviewed by the Rulings department of Konami, to make sure they're accurate so that just made it even more confusing. i can't find the article anymore so they probably took it down to reduce any other confusion.

i guess what they are thinking that since it was on the field before the Xyz summon, and it isn't considered to be on the field anymore, it technically counts as leaving the field? but if that were the case, then plague, after using it's "reborning" effect shouldn't be able to be use as an Xyz material either, since it "leaves" the field like tengu does(considering the Daigusto Phoenix OTK http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Tips:Daigusto_Phoenix)

so we have to wait till all of the judges get the official word from the Rulings Department. i'll let you guys know when i get more info haha

@ruler: it looks like you copied that off of a post by Curtis Chiang lol

I gues that if plague is not considering leaving the field, thengu wont get his effect either and thats nice to hear not only cuz tengu will not be more broken than it already is, but cuz Zombies will be PROER

Let me make you pay attention at these statements (wikia-xyz materials):

1.When an Xyz Monster is Summoned, the monsters used in the Xyz Summon are stacked underneath the monster instead of being sent to the Graveyard and so only one Monster Card Zone is occupied

2.If the Xyz Monster is destroyed or banished from the field, any associated Xyz Materials are sent
to the Graveyard. When an Xyz Material stacked under an Xyz Monster is
removed or detached, it is sent to the Graveyard.

3.Xyz Materials underneath Xyz Monsters do not count as monsters, so if "Dimensional Fissure"
is on the field, detached Xyz Materials will be sent to the Graveyard.
Xyz Materials are also treated as not being on the field, so effects
like "Sangan" do not activate, and "Plaguespreader Zombie" will be sent to the Graveyard when detached even when it was Summoned with its own effect.


SO, the materials do not count as monsters nor do they count to be on field. This is how it works:
Sangan-No more on field-Effect says when it is sent FROM FIELD to graveyard
Plaguespreader zombie-No more on field-remove this card from play when it is removed from the FIELD

These 2 wont activate because they are sent to the graveyard from somewhere else than from the actual field.
BUT TENGU in difference to these
Tengu's eff: When this card is removed from the field, Special Summon 1 "Reborn Tengu" from your Deck.

Tengus' eff activates BEFORE going to graveyard or anywhere else (in this case to the overlay units space)
So After tributing it, After synchronizing it, After fusioning it, After exceeding it, it activates eff because it is removed from field --->Xyz Materials are also treated as not being on the field

I think it explains enough
Theres no contradiction...

and besides, when using OCG cards like exceeds in this case, why should you use tcg rullings before they are out? U use librarian with ocg rullings, why not exceeds and all that goes with them too?

there is a contradiction. Plague spreader zombie effect CONDITION is the contradiction. If PSZ leaves the field it is removed from play but he is not removed in this case. Thats what all the confusion is about ! Do they REALLY leave the field !

I guess we will learn more about this later

As long as tengu remains, I am satisfied

yay no xyz

tengu does not get effect ... its been already discusees in ocg forums and the zone where xyz summon happens, it is not considered out of the field ... so tengu does not get effect

milkman wrote:

tengu does not get effect ... its been already discusees in OCG forums and the zone where xyz summon happens, it is not considered out of the field ... so tengu does not get effect

OCG=/=TCG sometimes.

not in this case

Scorpion67 wrote:

there is a contradiction. Plague spreader zombie effect CONDITION is the contradiction. If PSZ leaves the field it is removed from play but he is not removed in this case. Thats what all the confusion is about ! Do they REALLY leave the field !

I guess we will learn more about this later

Well, i think i didnt see what i was writing, if the PSZ gets RFG by its eff when i use evacuation device on it, XYZ summon should remove it too

milkman wrote:

tengu does not get effect ... its been already
discusees in ocg forums and the zone where xyz summon happens, it is not
considered out of the field ... so tengu does not get effect

your post is confusing, xyz summon ofc happens on field, where else?
but we discuss about the materials here
Tengu gets eff WHEN REMOVED FROM FIELD and he is removed but not sent to grave when used as material for XYZ, although, it gets eff because its removed from field (as said, materials do not count to be on field, they are in some other space konami didnt name in this game yet)

dude this is totally absurd ... the field is considered with zones ... tengu is in battle zone, when removed from there he gets eff ... he is not removed from there

the statement says something else
As xyz materials are not yet considered on field, they are FISICALLY visible on field, but still treated as NOT on field, so tengu goes in that overlay network or whatever which means EFF

ill stick to this until TCG says different

thats why i play ocg ....
owait ... thats why i dont play at all

from what croc says, Tengu still gets it's effect and will remain all powerful.

tenngu tenngu tenngu !!! POWAH!

Right now as things are Tengu gets the effect. If new rules about XYZ come out then they ll propably come up with sth so he doesnt get the effect. But right now at this moment at 4:51 tengu will get his effect if he is used as a material for an XYZ

but it doesn't technically leave the field. it goes from on the field to not being counted as a monster. nothing about leaving the field.

during the discussion i was on the side that said tengu shouldn't get it's effect when it's used for an Xyz summon, but i can't really argue. i'm just gonna go off of what was discussed and decided by the other judges until we get a response from R&D =b haha

Just because I love making Tengu fans sad: http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=974574

Redshift wrote:

Kevin's quotes:

Quote:
‎"Leaves the field" currently has an exception for when cards on the field get shuffled into the Main Deck, at which point they're not considered to have "left the field"./endquote

With the new Xyz Summoning mechanic, that definition needs to get updated, since Xyz Summoning is unlike anything we've seen before. We're reviewing the Gates of the Underworld Structure Deck rulebook at the moment, and this is a topic under discussion.
Quote:
The only official rules on Xyz are on pages 13-14 of the Beginner's Guide, which comes with the Starter Deck./endquote
And then I asked him:
Quote:
Kevin, I'll ask you a different question. Let's say that you were having a Duel with Julia on this very day. She had "Wall of Ivy" and "Gravity Bind" on her side of the field, and you had "Reborn Tengu" and "Dark Rabbit" on yours. Without any way to attack, you use your two monsters for the Xyz Summon of Number 39: Utopia. How would you proceed next?/endquote
To which he answered:
Quote:
I'd enter the Battle Phase and attack./endquote
So no Tengu search first...

And this is who that guy is: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Kevin_Tewart

Just sayin'...